PEP Episode 076 — Candor Over Clever: The Sales Edge Most In Payments Ignore | Field Guide for ISOs & Agents

In a market where scripts and “solutions” blur together, candor is the unfair advantage. This episode features JJ Sedor of Paymint Solutions (https://www.paymintinc.com/) — a former construction-business owner turned ISO CEO—who wins by telling the truth, learning faster than rivals, and leading with software that actually fixes merchant problems. Join Christopher Dryden, and Jeremy Stock hosting JJ to break down how saying “I don’t know, but I’ll find out” disarms resistance, opens real discovery, and builds trust that survives pricing pressure. This is a field guide for agents, ISOs, PayFacs, and fintech operators who want durable growth, not churn.

From Job Sites to Merchant Counters: Transferable Skills That Win Deals

JJ maps the surprising overlap between running remodels and running payments projects: scoping, sequencing, clear milestones, and proactive communication. Door-knocking anxiety nearly derailed him; what saved him was acting before he felt “ready,” then operationalizing every lesson. Confidence followed competence—and competence came from doing installs, touching terminals, and walking the workflow with the merchant.

If You’re Not Selling Software, You’re Selling a Commodity

Modern acquiring is software-led. JJ shows how integrations with accounting, inventory, and POS unlock time savings merchants can feel: reconciliation, real reporting, faster cash, cleaner training. Lead with outcomes, not features. Translate “API” into “fewer clicks and fewer callbacks.” The result: stickier portfolios, lower support drag, and margins that survive rate-shopping.

Contracts Decide Tomorrow’s Revenue—Not Just Today’s Close

Newcomers miss the fine print. We unpack the traps that bury future earnings:

Residuals: Watch for clawbacks, one-sided true-up language, and vague net definitions.

Exclusivity and non-solicit: Keep them narrow, time-boxed, and tied to real consideration.

Reporting: Monthly, line-item detail that lets you verify your split—no “trust us” clauses.

Termination: Define cause, cure periods, data hand-off, and residual survivability.

Legal review isn’t overhead—it’s risk control. The right ISO alignment protects both sides and prevents relationship drift when people change or priorities shift.

The Sales Operating System: Practical Tactics You Can Use Today

Lead with candor: “Here’s what this does, here’s what it doesn’t, here’s the tradeoff.” Credibility beats clever.

Do the work on-site: Touch the hardware, map the workflow, document the current stack. Solve a real pain in the first week.

Sell the integration, not the widget: Demo the end state—“close batch, auto-post, reconcile”—not the menu tree.

Standardize discovery: Ten questions that surface risk, compliance gaps, and must-have integrations before you quote.

Instrument your portfolio: Track install-to-activation lag, support ticket drivers, and save reasons. Close the loop monthly.

Confidence Without the Spin: A Culture That Compounds

Knowledge compounds when you share it. JJ’s rule: teach the playbook, build a bench of mentors, and reward the person who asked the tough question—because that question saved ten others. Teams that hoard information burn out; teams that publish internal “how-to”s and run weekly debriefs scale.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

Moving from construction to payments and transferring customer skills into process and project management

Overcoming doorknocking fear and building “Teflon” confidence through reps and real merchant work

Using candor to build trust and close with integrity when competitors over-promise

Learning terminals, installs, and merchant workflows so you can help first and sell second

Selling software and integrations to drive efficiency and stickier relationships

Keeping pace with fast-changing payments tech without becoming the merchant’s beta test

Avoiding contract traps and securing fair, auditable residuals with survivability

Building a mentorship bench and sharing knowledge so wins scale beyond one rep

Bottom Line

Candor beats a clever script. Software-led selling beats commodity rates. And a clean, auditable contract beats heroics after the fact. If you care about practical selling, product truth, and merchant outcomes, this episode delivers tactics you can use on your next call—and a framework for building a book that lasts.

*Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice.  All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.*

Transcript

Christopher Dryden (00:00):

You got to be vulnerable to a certain degree, right? And I’m not trying to be touchy feely, but No, I

JJ Sedor (00:07):

Have no problem.

Christopher Dryden (00:08):

I think you have to be willing to say, Hey, I don’t know, but I’ll find out. And I think people respect that candor of just being real with somebody else. And I think what I’ve gotten better at as I’ve gotten older is the law is crazy, right? I mean, there’s so much for us to know. I’ve gotten really good at telling potential clients going, I know nothing about that and I’m not going to learn anything about that. But there are tons of professionals that you can go to find out about that. I’m not that guy. You got a tax question? I got plenty of people for you, but I’m not getting involved.

Jeremy Stock  (00:45):

Yeah, yeah. Welcome to the Payments Experts podcast, a podcast of global legal law firm. We hope you enjoy this episode.

Christopher Dryden (01:02):

All right, jj, we’re going to jump in. So that’s PA Mint, by the way, not payment, but pa mint. MINT. I actually like the play on words. It’s really interesting too, because JJ ISS based in Illinois, but his address, he lives on San Diego place, which I think is the greatest thing ever because we happen to be located in San Diego. So when I saw that I was, oh, it’s perfect, man. We’re made for one another. So J’s been in the space for a while. He is got kind of an interesting story. JJ is a people person. And the thing that I really like about our podcast is that we get normal players in the space from, I mean, and it’s everybody, right? I mean, we get digital transactions and publications, we get the feed on the street, which is more like jj, we get ancillary service providers.

Christopher Dryden (01:57):

But the great part about having somebody like JJ on is he’s a sales guy and he runs sales, and he didn’t start in payments. He found his way to payments, which I think is usually a more successful avenue. I think when you start in payments, you may or may not be a great salesperson, but when you do something else and you understand sales and you transition, I think generally that is something where people become very successful. So just as get us going, just tell us about your background, not just in payments, but how you started in business and then how you transitioned to payment. Sure.

JJ Sedor (02:32):

Well, first, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Been looking forward to this. I started in payments in this industry in about 2018. I’ll kind of backtrack real quick. I was in the construction industry. I owned a construction company for about 18 ish years, and sick and tired of the grind was fishing with a good buddy of mine that had been, and still is in this industry for a very long time. And he’s like, Hey man, why don’t you hop in the car one day with me and just see what I do? So I did. And that was the only time I was in the car with him. And I was actually shocked. You know what? I think I can do this. Running a construction company, very similar in sales. Obviously every sales job’s a little different, but very similar. But I was burnt out. A couple guys on the team, you’re taken from Peter to pay Paul mostly residential, some light commercial.

JJ Sedor (03:39):

And then once I started doing this and at the end of 2018, I realized, I’m like, wow, this is interesting. And I think I may have found a different avenue of making a living. 2019, I just jumped into it. I sold my construction company, COVID hit, and a really weird scenario in my life happened after 2019, COVID hit. I really didn’t do much in this industry. I had a little bit of residuals. And then right out of COVID, it was January, I caught COVID. And literally the third week of January, I told my wife, I’m like, I got to shit or get off the pot. I got to do something. Either I go do this or I go do something else, but I have to do something full-time and take it serious. And I just started from there. Within that first year, I not only meet and beat my expectations, I shot for the moon as my good buddy would say, shoot for the moon and reach for the stars. And I hit both of them. And then year two, I hit exceeded from there and it just kept growing.

Christopher Dryden (04:53):

Well, what’s been to me coming in from a whole new space, I mean, when I train employees in payments, a lot of times it’s easier to understand where we are by understanding where we came from. And so I use different methods of trying to train people and really, I try to give people historical payments from my perspective of when I first got involved, and that’s like 20 years ago, and it’s monumentally shifted. What was probably the biggest learning curve as you came into this space, trying to determine, I mean, what are the top 10 biggest learning curve? But no, I get it. But as far as making a transition into this, I mean, look, people want relationships. That’s my feeling about it. And I don’t care what business you’re running, people want relationships. They’re not always going to like what you have to say, but they want somebody that’s going to deliver a message with good intent and their best outcome in mind, right? And sometimes that’s literally walk away or you know what, you’re in a great situation, you don’t need me. And it’s building that rapport, even if it doesn’t pay dividends till later on. But so some people have that natural ability that seems like you, every time I talk to you, you’re easy with the gift, the gap. But as far as coming into a space that was really unfamiliar, what were the things that you found difficult and ways that you overcame those obstacles?

JJ Sedor (06:27):

It’s a great question. There was a lot of, in my past career, there was a lot of having to my mind’s working like an engineer. So I had to figure out problems. I had to constantly learn. And that was really, really, I love learning and I love figuring stuff out. But I also, that’s one part. The other part, I had to deal with customers. Whether I had two or three jobs, a bathroom, a kitchen. I was constantly having to keep, I mean, you’re dealing with other people’s money in their home and it’s a very difficult situation. So I feel like the customer service part of it and dealing with customers from start to finish was easy for me. And when I got brought into this industry, I feel like that was the easiest part. Honestly, I was in two, three homes a day, seven days a week when I actually had to start knocking on doors, walking into a business owner, ask if the business owner’s there. There were times I’d drive around, I’d drive around the block 3, 4, 5 times. I’d sit there for 20 minutes before I walked in the door. I don’t know what it was, but it was very difficult. It was a total different interaction to have to get out of the car, go in there, Hey, is the business owner here?

JJ Sedor (07:55):

That was intimidating. That was very intimidating.

Christopher Dryden (07:58):

You got to be Teflon. I mean, those instances, it’s like all young attorneys going into a courtroom. You got to go in and understand that you’re not going to win. But James, my partner, says it really well. Every trial is a coin flip. And every client wants to ask you, look, I can say the facts are on your side, the law is on your side. The facts and law are on your side. But at the end of the day, at the presentation, every trial is coin flip. And it took me a long time to understand what he was saying, and I think it takes defeats to understand that sometimes that’s going to happen. And really, I mean, I chalk up whatever, whether it was apprehension or whatever it was that waiting. I think it’s just the ability to try to put on your Teflon self and get in front of someone.

JJ Sedor (08:51):

I agree. That’s a great way of explaining it. It took a minute, and once I started getting into that groove, it just became easy. I’d have to say the hardest thing was you got to figure out the basics, kind of what to say what you’re doing. I was told, you don’t need to know everything about the technology. But in my mind, I needed to know because that, how can I approach these business owners and not know anything about the products that I’m trying to help them with? And I wasn’t really trying to sell them. I was truly trying to help people. And how do you do that? How do you have a conversation and not know anything of what you’re talking about? So that began to snowball immediately. Once I got comfortable with talking to these business owners, I think that was the biggest hiccup.

JJ Sedor (09:45):

And I actually, and I had an agent advocate, I’m not going to say any names very specifically who was by my side. She was very tough on me. I thought she was rude at first, but she wasn’t. She was awesome. And she answered a billion questions anytime I asked a lot of questions. And if I could say a name, I would, but I don’t want to put anyone on the spot. And she was awesome. She really helped me. She helped me from just simple terminals to knowing how to utilize them, doing your own installs. And progressively, within a very short period of time, all of these pieces of the puzzle just started kind of falling into place. You’re learning how to speak to people, you’re learning, trying to figure out what their needs are, trying to figure out if you can even be of any help going into what the product is that they may need going into how to install the product. I can go on and on and on. All these things started.

Christopher Dryden (10:45):

Well, I think that’s where knowledge comes in. I mean, I think it’s having a conversation, getting five minutes in and really understanding A, what’s the value prop in the mind of the merchant? And then B, what’s the value prop that you see objectively that they may need by looking at a business. I mean, I think that’s where having experience as a business owner, I think that helps me in my job all the time. Yes, I’m a lawyer and this is what I do, but I run a business and including this podcast is part of it. I mean, this is marketing for us. And so understanding from my perspective at least, how to connect on a level other than just the service that I’m providing, I think it’s really important. And it’s much easier to just, I think what you’re going back to driving around the block a few times, I think to be a good salesperson or to effectively provide a service or product, and if you’re a salesperson, you’re really providing a service, you got to be vulnerable to a certain degree. And I’m not trying to be touchy feely, but no,

JJ Sedor (11:51):

I have no problem.

Christopher Dryden (11:52):

I think you to be willing to say, Hey, I don’t know, but I’ll find out. And I think people respect that candor of just being real with somebody else. And I think what I’ve gotten better at as I’ve gotten older is the law. It’s crazy, right? I mean, there’s so much for us to know. I’ve gotten really good at telling potential clients going, I know nothing about that and I’m not going to learn anything about that. But there are tons of professionals that you can go to find out about that. I’m not that guy. You got a tax question. I got plenty of people for you, but I’m not getting involved.

JJ Sedor (12:30):

Yeah, I agree a hundred

Christopher Dryden (12:32):

Percent. So what do you think was, at least from the industry specific stuff, what do you think was the most important thing that you really kind of learned that made a difference in conversion or, because I think who you are probably is a lot of what’s attributable to your success so far in this space. Because from my listening to your story outside of this podcast, I mean, you’re growing in ISO and I think a lot of that is really you. I mean, you’re able to have agents, you’re able to work with them, you’re able to get knowledge, give them knowledge without fear of disloyalty. I think a lot of that’s attributable to you. But when we get into actually the industry itself, what do you think has paid the most dividends to know?

JJ Sedor (13:24):

It’s a great question. I don’t think there’s one specific answer.

Christopher Dryden (13:32):

Give me a top three.

JJ Sedor (13:33):

Top three. I think being vulnerable is one. I think being honest, and this all is part of one, being honest. Like you said, if you don’t know it, don’t pretend. Like people can see, most people can see through bs. I don’t know if it’s different anywhere else, but in the general areas that we work in, the Midwest, I think people in general can see bs. So being honest, the ever growing technology, how quick technology is growing today compared to five years ago or 10 years ago, that’s a huge one because if you’re not up to date or willing to learn that technology, you’re just sitting there trying to, how are you helping people, really? How are you helping them? What stories?

Christopher Dryden (14:31):

I get you, man. I truly believe that Alan Copeman has been on our show. He’s a big sales guy. He’s been in the industry for 30 something years. He’s down in south Florida. This guy knows tons about just payments, right? He’s got his own podcast and he focuses on different issues. We’ve been on his podcast and he made the statement, I don’t know if we were on error or not, but I’ve repeated it many times. He’s like, if you’re not selling software, you’re dead.

Christopher Dryden (14:59):

And I truly believe that because every piece of software is intended as a business efficiency tool and being a business owner and understanding efficiency and how I’m not looking to replace people, but I want to automate as much as I can because there’s no reason to not in the day and age that we live in. And so I think it’s really important to kind of do that. And I think that’s where payment technology comes in, is it helps create, especially when it integrates successfully with whatever accounting software you’re using, it can give you some really good metrics to see where your money’s going.

JJ Sedor (15:39):

Yes, I want to come back to that because that’s a really important thing. But really quick on number three would be the ever-changing industry of payments. I do not know 50%. Let’s be real, of all this payment, I’m learning something new, multiple things new every day and it changes every day. So I feel like I’m constantly just trying to keep up with that shelf that keeps growing and I’m trying to catch up, but it becomes difficult.

Christopher Dryden (16:09):

I tell my kids, the only reason I come to work is like, look, being a lawyer is like a job. There’s a grind to it, right? It’s not always. I said, name another profession where somebody’s trying to kick your feet out from under you the entire time you’re doing it. And really, that’s what we do. Yeah, there you go. Beat up. And I say, so it doesn’t make it pleasureful. The really cool thing about the subject matter I work in is that it’s changing all the time, and I’m learning all the time, and I actually enjoy learning. It’s one of those things that I’ve always enjoyed is I think knowledge is power and the more that you have of it. So I think that that’s important, what you just said, not to be discouraged of, Hey, man, this is moving quick. Just do the best that you can to understand as much as you can.

JJ Sedor (16:58):

I agree a hundred percent. And if people that are helping you with that knowledge, there are some people that are willing to give it to you and teach you when you’re asking questions. There’s also some people that are unwilling to or give you, I don’t know how to say it. They’re not that, they’re not willing to, but they’re keeping some of that information guarded. I dispose of that. I don’t want that around me. I’m more than willing to help anybody, even if it’s a competition, it doesn’t matter. There’s so much food out there, and if I can help someone, great. If someone can help me, awesome. But if you’re guarding your information and you don’t want to help someone next to you in the industry,

Christopher Dryden (17:45):

Yeah, no, I’m with you. You can ask Jeremy. I give away a lot of time and I do it on the front end with people, and I try to be really clear with them about what’s going on and what expenses are going to look like. But I give a lot of time away and I do it because, and information. I agree with you. You can’t really live in that way where you have to sit there and hover up and it just doesn’t make any sense to me. No,

Christopher Dryden (18:14):

No, no. Well, on the flip side of that, there is a subject matter I want to get into on the podcast with you, but we’ll get to that. I’m kind of laying my foundation here. I consider myself, I’ve never said this on air before, but I really, as a younger person, I listened to Howard Stern a lot, and I enjoyed Howard Stern. Even the juvenile somo stuff that went on that makes it fun. And then his shtick, it gets old. But the one thing that Howard Stern, I will say that he is really great at is he is one of the best interviewers on the face of the planet. And he gets things out of people and in his space, which I really enjoyed, always. He’s got to put out a best of, but he’s got people to come on a show. I like to interview people because I’m genuinely interested and I want to know. So on the flip side of what are the things that have been most beneficial, what are the pitfalls that you’ve seen that you’ve experienced, whether you brought it on yourself or not, that you think everybody should look out for?

JJ Sedor (19:25):

Another really good question. Have somebody on your side like you guys, because from just signing a contract, not knowing what that contract size will really hinder you and screw you. So I think that’s really important. If you don’t understand legal terminology, which I don’t, I can somewhat understand it, but not really well and have someone look at it because you are going to, that’s

Christopher Dryden (20:02):

Great. We didn’t plan on this. Not at all. I’m really serious. I had a different answer totally

JJ Sedor (20:09):

About you. Go story going to, I got another one too. But I would say that’s a big, big one because if you do something in this industry and you actually become successful and you don’t have your team that you’re playing on, right? One of the ISOs that you’re working with truly doesn’t have your back, or there’s terms in the agreement or something that’s not cool, that’s not beneficial to you. It should be equal to all parties. And we’re all here to make money and protect ourselves. And I get that from every aspect. But there’s also a lot of big companies out there that are greedy and that really aren’t looking out for the agent. The agents that are out there are the good agents. They’re trying to hustle and they’re trying to make money and help people. And there shouldn’t be big ISOs out there hurting anybody.

JJ Sedor (21:02):

So that’d be number one. Have a professional look at your contracts. Have a professional look at what you’re going to sign on to before you do anything. Number two, have someone to go to for information, like we were talking about before. I think that’s really important. If you can’t ask questions and all you’re left to is the internet, which is great, you’re not going to have experiences helping you, and that can really hinder you. I mean, I was grateful enough to, and fortunate enough to have somebody by my side helping me with a lot of those questions. If I didn’t, I’d be lost. I wouldn’t know where to go, what to do, and I’d be selling to sell. That’s it.

Jeremy Stock  (21:55):

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Payments Experts podcast. A podcast, a global legal law firm. Visit us online today at global legal law firm.com. Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice. All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.