PEP Episode 006 — Swoop Finance – Swoop Into Payments Profitability

Ever heard of Swoop Financing? It’s the new and approved way of financing, let George Csahiouni, President of Swoop Business Solutions, and James Huber talk more into how financing and the electronic payment world collide.

Jeremy Stock (00:00):

Welcome to the Payments Experts Podcast, a podcast of global legal law firm ISOs, FinTech, pay fax agents, merchants, processors, acquiring banks and card brands. If these terms mean something to you, this podcast is for you. If these terms aren’t so familiar, this podcast is even more for you. We hope you enjoy this episode of pep, the Payments Experts podcast. Welcome to the Payments Experts Podcast, a podcast of Global legal offer in today’s episode, part managing partner James Huber, as well as George Csahiouni  from Swoop Finance. Gentlemen, welcome.

James Huber (00:54):

Thanks, Jared. George, how you doing?

George Csahiouni (00:56):

I’m fantastic, James. How are you doing?

James Huber (00:58):

I’m doing well. So we’ve known each other, I wanna say like 12, 13, 15 years.

George Csahiouni (01:07):

Yeah, it’s going on at least 12 years for sure. Yeah, maybe a little bit longer. It’s been a while.

James Huber (01:11):

And when we met, you were sitting behind a desk at the US Bank Tower dressed to the nines, uh, <laugh>. What, what, remind me of what your role was. Were you president of sales at a pretty big ISO?

George Csahiouni  (01:27):

I was, yeah. I was a senior vice president of sales at a, at a larger ISO that was doing approximately, you know, four or 500 accounts per month at that time. So, uh, yeah, things were, things were rolling pretty well, uh, at, at that period of sales for sure.

James Huber (01:44):

Things were rolling, and we were, we were your outside, kind of inside council, and we tell war stories. Actually, when I’m interviewing new attorneys, I tell, I tell, you know, how we learned the space was from that ISO and we liken it to a complete smash and grab operation. Is that, is that pretty op accurate? For sure.

George Csahiouni  (02:11):

Yeah, for sure. You know, it was, uh, definitely hardnosed and we were hitting the market very aggressively at that time, for sure.

James Huber (02:18):

And it was lots

George Csahiouni  (02:19):

Of lessons learned.

James Huber (02:20):

Lots of lessons learned. This was a, this was the model where you were leasing, you know, four or five VX 20 s to a single, single, uh, you know, point of sale operation, saving them money on their processing, just getting those leases, right?

George Csahiouni  (02:36):

That’s correct. You know, every account that we were doing at that time. So those four or 500 bids had a lease attached to it, you know, somewhere around $79, $89 or $99 a month on a payment. And, uh, typically for 48 months or longer. So, yeah, we were locking some folks into programs where they’re getting a lower rate. And, um, you know, and committing to our program for an extended period of,

James Huber (03:00):

We did even, you know, even with those sales tactics, we were suing those merchants on their leases, uh, their 48 month leases. And, you know, we’d be suing ’em for like 50 grand for their five VX 20 s, and we’re actually winning and enforcing those was interesting. Um, but obviously, you know, you’ve come a long way since then. Uh, I think we all know and have learned that model is lucrative in the short term. I think actually for one person it was a pretty lucrative in the long run. But, um, sure. <laugh> not a, not a sustainable model, and I don’t see it anymore. I’ll see it like some ISOs doing inside sales where, you know, they’ll do a small lease, but then there’s, um, the POS machines that are more expensive and people will need financing. And it kind of leads us, I mean, I’m sure everything you’ve learned then led you to where you’re at now, but tell us a little bit about, uh, swoop financing.

George Csahiouni  (04:04):

Yeah, so Swoop financing is really a modern take on, on technology financing, right? So as you kind of mentioned and led into those were, uh, kind of the Wild West Times at that time of payment processing. You know, the industry as a whole was going through a major transition, right? Where everything was a countertop terminal for the most part back then, uh, or the majority, I should say. And really with the technology changing, you know, a lot of things changed in the industry, right? So, you know, we, what Swoop Finance does and, and leasing is definitely still a route. Um, but what Swoop Finance does is we’ve taken a modern approach to being able to give people the opportunity, you know, to now take that newer technology that is usually has a considerably much higher cost, right? Than just a countertop terminal. And to be able to subsidize that or finance that, if you’re the business owner or the merchant, you’re able to finance that.

George Csahiouni  (05:00):

And on a partner side, whether you’re an ISO or another technology group, you know, be able to help subsidize your business. So we do that both on, obviously the terminal business is still there, but you know, the points of sale business as well as SaaS, which has become a big part of intermingling with payments, um, payment gateways and other forms of software such as like CRM systems and whatnot. So we’re able to do what was usually just done only on a hardware financing model, we’re able to do on both hardware as well as software. So taking a much more palatable approach to the market. A lot of it, yes, as you mentioned from some of those lessons that we learned in the past were, um, things were just a little bit more aggressive.

James Huber (05:47):

So it’s, I mean, who, who really benefits from this? It’s the, the salesperson, right? I mean, it, it follows, I won’t say it follows that leasing model, but it’s the same idea, right? If you get a bunch of cash in your pocket right now, you can bonus your salespeople and pay yourself based on, you know, your future receivables, right?

George Csahiouni  (06:08):

Yeah. From the industry standpoint, you know, the, the iso the agent, you know, the, the larger acquirers, it definitely, you know, benefit at the end of the day on the ground level, the, you know, the feet on the street, it’s definitely a benefiting the agent, right? So if you’re an agent trying to build a book of business where you know you’re going out, whether you’re door knocking or working the phones and selling over the phones, or a combination thereof, you know, you’re able to help subsidize your growth of business by, by being able to collect upfront, large commissions, um, on selling affordable technology, hardware and software to your business owners, rather than just accumulating the monthly residual from building that book, right? So, you know, and that could be quite substantial, you know, depending on the amount of business that, that you’re doing. But that goes from the agent all the way up to the larger acquirers, right? Depending on how much you wanna fuel your business or how wide, I should say that you’re building that business model.

James Huber (07:08):

So how does, I mean, who’s your ideal market for this? Are you guys going after sales agents? Because I’m, you know, I know people that tried to start their ISOs up and they had been doing leasing models, and they’re going, oh my gosh, this is great. You know, I’m making 15 k a month in my leases. But when they realized they couldn’t lease anymore, they’re going, yeah, I’m making $18 a month, uh, you know, maybe I’ll get it up to a few hundred bucks and I I’m just gonna sell this, sell this thing, or do a loan on it to somebody, you know, like Blue Square that ended up just stealing it from them, or, you know, it didn’t work out for those people once leasing went away. So is this kind of filling that gap or, you know, well,

George Csahiouni  (07:55):

I think number one, yeah, that’s a great question. I think number one, first and foremost, you know, we’ve changed and gone through the legal process in the language to where it’s not just a lease, right? It is actually a legally a subscription. So I think that’s one of the key points of change. And, you know, that’s great for both the merchant as well as for the agent. Number one, these days, everybody’s subscribing to anything, right? Or everything, whether it be a mobile app, I mean, you can even buy a vehicle online these days via subscription, right? So it’s a lot more comfortable for the market standpoint as far as how it’s being received. Um, it also has some benefits, which we can maybe get into a little bit later in the conversation with regards to what that means for the merchant, right? But when we’re talking about, you know, a, a, a agent, you know, going out there and selling that product, you know, the way that we like to offer it is, or suggest that we offer it to the marketplace, is that agents and ISOs are bringing it to the table in a collaboration to their merchant processing.

George Csahiouni  (08:59):

So for example, if you’re selling a payment gateway, you know, and that could be any variety of a gateway, whether it’s MMI or off net or card point, you know, whatever that specific group may be using or prefers to sell. You know, those payment gateways, for example, are software based, um, payment processing application that you can download to your phone or to any desktop option. And you can take that payment gateway and charge a monthly fee with a bundled low rate, a bundled credit card processing low rate or program, whether that be a surcharging dual pricing or a cost plus, you know, you’re able for let’s say $49 a month or, you know, a hundred dollars a month, whatever the payment may be, depending on the technology, you know, to give that customer a complete package of a low rate, as well as the technology, and I’m sure other service and benefits along, you know, ancillary benefits along with that for one low monthly cost. You know, the, the market’s changed considerably over the last five to 10 years, and even before, with regards to the technology, but also how folks are pricing merchants, right? So when you combine the two today, it makes it a very powerful package to, to bring to the market, while also making it a win for the merchant, but also for the ICE as they’re collecting. You know, that, that, that they’re monetizing those that package upfront, early and often, if that makes sense.

James Huber (10:28):

It does. So are you fi will you finance pieces of this, or is it just a package deal?

George Csahiouni  (10:35):

Yeah, no. So we can do everything from an individual terminal or a pined all the way up to, you know, software based technology, which, you know, not too many folks, if any, are actually doing or any type of a bundle. You know, we, we do live calls to help educate the market, or I should say reeducate the market on what a, a program looks like, whether, you know, previously labeled as leasing. And now as we’re labeling a subscription, we go to ISOs and we hold calls to educate, you know, what we’ve received feedback on from the market as the best way that the merchants feel that it’s working for them. So, you know, not only do we do the, the pay or the swoop finance, we actually also, our company has a sister company that’s in iso, right? So we’re still in the market and we spent three years beta testing this to really find some of the best nuances and the way to deliver it to, and, and, and really make it about the merchant as much as it is about the agent. And I think that’s one of the key differences within of the past is that, you know, it wasn’t really the merchant that was important, it was all about the agent, right? And that just doesn’t work, and honestly, it’s just not fair for the market. So, you know, this is built with all parties in mind to, it’s really a win-win situation where you’re able to profit and it’s putting the customer in a much better situation, both short and long term.

James Huber (12:01):

Well, I think there’s, I mean, the tremendous benefit that I see aside from just the nuts and bolts and the cash flow is that you get some stickiness with your merchant accounts when you’re, you know, in this subscription. We all know that, you know, I probably have like four Netflix subscriptions, you know, taxing me right now, and I can’t cancel any of them because what if it’s the one that I actually am watching? Um, but with yours, you know, one, I like the idea of, you know, it’s one subscription, here’s my thing, but when a competitor comes in, you know, they’re saying, you know, Hey, I’ll save you on the processing. Well, what about the, the software? I mean, I know that’s why for a while ISVs came in and it was, you know, the current flavor of the, you know, couple years of this is how you’re gonna have sticky merchants. Sure. Everything’s in their crm, they can’t move. It’s the biggest pain, you know, ever of, you know, porting all that stuff over. And it’s, you know, if the system’s updating and things like that, you’re like, well, you know, I guess I don’t really need to move. But, um, it is, was that part of it? Is it, you know, to get the stickiness, or do you see that actually people are, you know, able to move around a little more?

George Csahiouni  (13:14):

Yeah, well, I think it’s both. You know, I think the best way to bring it to market is to customize and tailor the package specific to that merchant or to that group as to what they need, right? So we offer terms anywhere from 12 months all the way up to 60 months. So there’s flexibility there. So, you know, selling, you know, maybe a payment gateway might make sense to mirror the payment processing agreement, which are typically 36 months. So you might do a 36 month payment gateway agreement and let’s say 29, 39 or $49 a month, and it mirrors the payment processing, right? Or, you know, some folks want to be able to do a shorter term and you can do profitably a 12 month term, lock that customer down, you know, to lower your attrition on the payment side, right? But still give that customer the ease of mind that it’s not forever.

George Csahiouni  (14:05):

And, and they have the ability to upgrade within the term. So one of the things that we also offer is the ability to upgrade within that software or hardware program, that subscription program. So if their business grows or scales, they have flexibility there. So I think that’s a big part of it, for sure, is the attrition. But the other thing that you kind of just touched on, James, that, that lends to the I SV model is, you know, that is a good way to make it sticky, but as the payments landscape continues to evolve and change, you know, a lot of folks, especially on the smaller level, right? If you’re an agent, maybe a smaller ice or even a mid-level ice. So a lot of that payment processing has become a race to zero. Yeah. As far as the, you know, as far as the dollars and cents on the residual, what this does is, number one, it adds more monetization and money cashflow fuel to your, your business model.

George Csahiouni  (15:00):

But in addition to that, on the I SV model, it allows you for those that are capable or desired to get into some different verticals of selling, you know, so for example, one of the things that a lot of our partners will do that are used in our subscription model is they’ll go after, you know, mobile application companies that are already selling their product on a monthly basis. You know, that that lends very well to the payment and FinTech space. So maybe you have a company, a restaurant group that has a, a restaurant application for their V I P clients, and you know, they charge, you know, 9 99 a month, or 10 or 19, nine, $9, $19.99 a month, let’s say a loyalty or, or some type of gift card type of a program that’s via app, right? So you can, you can then monetize that upfront as well with like that subscription model. So not only can you cross-sell it yourself, you can also partner with those companies to then earn on a subscription base, which opens up the door for a lot of new business for these ISOs as we continue to evolve in that space.

James Huber (16:07):

I’ve got a question on the mechanics. So if I’m, you know, if I finance my, you know, I’ve sold a merchant this great software to help them, you know, do their HR as well as process payments and all of that, and I financed it to you guys, you pay me. What happens at the end of the term? Do you keep, keep the residuals or do they come back to me?

George Csahiouni  (16:32):

Yeah, it’s a great question. I’m glad you asked. So what happens there is, number one is we do all the work on behalf of the ISO as far as collecting the payment, right? So it’s still their customer, you know, they’re still able to cross sell, upsell, continue to add products, you know, to their, to their add-ons if you will, um, along the way. So they manage it and towards the end of their turn, well we offer is a renewal process. So that ISO that then did the work, brought the customer to the table, we strict, we strictly stand to the side, right? We just help fuel the financing and we help collect the payments and do the underwriting on that, on that subscription. But at the end of the term, let’s say it’s a 36 month term, if that ISO wants to renew that client, they can wait till that 36 month to do so.

George Csahiouni  (17:20):

But typically speaking, at about 50% of the way through of the program, you’re able to renew that customer for another 24 or 36 months and actually earn a profit while, once again reaffirming that customer or lowering that attrition for however many, you know, period of months or years down the road. And to do it profitably, uh, we’ve actually found from our own ISO group where, for example, if we signed some folks up for, you know, a program, let’s say a hundred dollars a month, which is very typical, you know, at about month, let’s say it was a 48 month agreement, at about month 24 to 30, we’re able to actually lower their monthly payment by 10 or $15 and renew them and pay off the old subscription while reaffirming them for another 24 to 36 months down the road. So, uh, you know, really what happens is, is not only can you, you know, earn that customer’s business once along with the payment processing, but on the subscription to get that upfront funding, it just becomes, you know, a renewable resource of income as they, as they continue to stay with you and you’re able to actually help lower their cost as you continue to go.

James Huber (18:31):

And what if they, what if they default, you know, I’ve gotten my upfront money from you and the merchant bounces. Do you come after the agent? Yeah. Or you do the collection on the merchant, or how’s that work?

George Csahiouni  (18:41):

So yeah, that’s great. So we customize the program depending on the size of the group, right? So if it’s an agent, a lot of agents, um, you know, an individual or small group of individuals, you know, they may have a 60 or 90 day type of a recourse, right? But if it’s someone that’s able to do, you know, we are also able to do ongoing funding. So we can do quarterly funding where we collect three payments in advance, and then you receive that next quarter’s funding, collect another three payments in advance and collect, and then receive that next quarter’s funding. So it allows you to not have to worry about a, a default along the way and you’re able to fund and receive funding as it comes along. So you’re not really worried about a large chargeback or clawback on a recourse that also works really well for broker groups or for larger groups of ISOs that, you know, are doing this at scale.

James Huber (19:38):

Yeah, well, I mean I We could also, go ahead. Sorry,

George Csahiouni  (19:41):

Go ahead. I was just gonna say, we can also go to the i an ISO group or a FinTech company and we can build them directly where we can customize the, you know, the recourse as needed, right? So there’s some, so we can build them directly instead of, you know, some prefer us to not actually deal with their clients on the recourse, um, obviously to make sure that that client stays happy and you know, and is their client for a long period of time. So there’s various ways to do it, but the best thing about it, and I think at the end of the day, is that we’re flexible, right? I think that’s part of the reason that it makes it more modern, whereas the old models very rigid and, you know, do it this way or you know, you lose type of a deal.

James Huber (20:24):

Yeah. Well, I mean, I love the idea when you told me about it a couple years ago, maybe now, or maybe it was only a year ago, but I like the model because typically in this industry, like I said, you have to wait for that big payout. And so if you can get some money up front, that that really helps your growth, it helps your lifestyle and all of that. And it’s not the situation where, you know, I brought up the blue squares of like, Hey, we’ll give you a loan, just reassigned your residuals to us and then we’re just gonna steal ’em and you’re never gonna get that money because Right, right. What we see a lot of times is people wait, they build this up and then they end up selling for this great multiple, but it’s not much different than the multiples, you know, you would get if I’d just, you know, done the financing with you or, you know, sold pieces along the way.

James Huber (21:12):

So Right. You see people waiting and then the industry changes, you know, we just have this big change on surcharging where we’re seeing, you know, entire people’s, you know, have built their business around, you know, surcharging and de and you know, discounting and they’re going, well, we’re wiped out. You know, we have, we have a bunch of people saying, you know, we’ll, we’ll fund you guys to go sue Visa and MasterCard, like at, at a minimum can you just get an injunction to have them stop? Cuz my business is going away. So this allows you, what I like about it is also allows you to hedge your bet, you know, merchant processing, one of the beautiful things is mailbox money. You know, your, your merchants don’t right, change that much, but, you know, was when the address changes, you know, or the, you know, person writing the checks is gone.

James Huber (22:00):

It makes it, um, hard to do. So I am interested your thoughts on, you know, what, what’s coming in the pipeline for you guys. You know, you’ve been tremendously successful in this industry and one of the reasons, you know, we love working in it is working with guys like you that have your head on the swivel and are able to make it work despite what things throw what you know, what, what’s thrown at you. You know, I, I told your sure dirty secret past of working at that iso, but after that ISO you worked at a tremendously successful ISO that I believe was involved in, you know, almost no litigation compared to that the first ISO you worked at, which I think was getting named in multiple class actions every month at the end of their reign of terror. Sure. Um, but you know, you guys, you built a very successful iso, um, with, you know, one of your friends and have moved on to this, you know, you’ve had to change and adapt. What do you see coming down the pipeline?

George Csahiouni  (23:06):

Well, I think, you know, thanks for mentioning that. I think that we are, um, all about the market and development of further evolving the market. And that probably stems from me personally from coming from a volatile initial uh, framework. Right? But you know, what I, what I personally and our team as a whole is trying to do is kind of what you just mentioned, is give back control to two key groups. And one is the merchant, first of all, and secondly, it’s the ISO groups and the folks that wanna build this business. And, and the way that you give them back control is to give them options that are reasonable to help finance and fuel their business. So, as you mentioned, you know, the, the scalability, you know, allowing that, allowing to be an ICER that goes from an agent to maybe a small group to an iso, you know, we’re starting to see that die down and we wanna be able to give that back to those folks by being able to say, Hey, listen, you don’t have to give up your portfolio necessarily, or you don’t have to leverage it, you know, 50% or a hundred percent against, you know, a very aggressive loan structure, right?

George Csahiouni  (24:20):

Like you, you can, you can actually earn income along the way aside from that portfolio to stay in control, which gives you the options not to just make more money, but to also to build your company properly where then you can actually service your merchants properly. And I think that’s been some of the key takeaways that I’ve had in the industry is that, you know, not being able to always being stressed for growth of income or to pay for employees or for the next technology, you know, puts folks in a position where at the end of the day, the merchants were really the ones that were getting hurt the most, right? And or the individual smaller agents. So on a sustainable level, on a consistent level, if you’re able to bring in cash and monetize, basically double the profit of a mid on a per annum, right?

George Csahiouni  (25:16):

Let’s just say an average mid brings in about two or $3,000 a year in residual income. You know, the average subscription also brings in a total funding amount of two or $3,000 so you can double your revenue, right? Which gives you so many options to better service everybody, whether it’s your agent, your partners, or your customer service for the actual merchants themselves. So that’s really kind of our mission and kind of what what we’re headed towards. And um, yeah, we think this is gonna grow wide and big and we think it’s gonna have a very positive impact on the market. j

James Huber (25:54):

I think it will too. I mean, you know, one of the, one of the reasons aside from working with very intelligent people that are really savvy at business is we, we fell in love with this industry because we ran into guys, you know, like the, uh, Securus, the Roe birds and the Lemma, you walked into their office, they have all of their childhood friends and family working there, paying them double if not triple what you would make, you know, outside of Portland. And they were able to do that because of the leasing model, you know, the residuals didn’t right? Didn’t pay the bills. I think that that went in, you know, the owner’s Lamborghini glove compartments, but the, you know, the, the lease, the constant flow of leasing, I mean those come in, you know how, I don’t know how you guys pay it, but it comes in, you know, often enough and it actually allows you yet to potentially hire some employees actually scale this business.

James Huber (26:50):

Cuz he touched on something really important in this industry is you don’t see a lot of those grassroots ISOs coming up and actually, you know, building an organization like that with, you know, 20, 30, 50 couple hundred employees, you see people doing very well for themselves, working outta their homes, working outta their cars. Sure. And maybe they have a few agents clocking deals for ’em and they’ve got some hot shot guy who hasn’t figured out that they’re just, you know, working through two or three layers of people and could just do them themselves. But if you can actually have that funding, you can, you know, go rent an office, hire somebody, hire your own customer service and all of that. So I see, you know, potentially this, this being, you know, the, the renaissance of, you know, the grassroots iso Sure. Growing up and building. Um, I’ve got one question before we wrap up and I appreciate you taking the time today. Sure. What, what have you done particularly, you know, we’re, we’re a law firm. We’ve, you know, make, you know, our livings off of people that do things necessarily not the right way. Maybe they don’t call us before they do something, but as I’ve mentioned, sure your guys’ business has run, you know, without major hiccups, you know, attorney general violations, you know, employment claims, things like that. What, you know, what have you learned over the years that keeps your, you know, keeps your nose clean, keeps you from having to call us too much?

George Csahiouni  (28:23):

Yeah, number one, you just gotta be honest. You know, the, the whole market’s all about transparency right now. You know, people buy honesty and they buy conviction. You know, you gotta believe in what you’re doing and you got to shoot people straight and you know, and that doesn’t mean that you’re soft by any means or weak with how you approach the market or your teams, but it just means that you’re honest and direct and very straightforward, neither too far to the left or too far to the right. So that’s a culture that we ingrain into our finance company as well as into our iso, you know, it just treat people fair and, you know, I think the last thing right now, and more importantly, it, it, it’s interesting even with like the new AI kinda launched in multiple different platforms and, you know, all of the, you know, the, the non-connected communication just as we are right now, we’re sitting essentially face-to-face as well as on the audio.

George Csahiouni  (29:11):

You know, it’s important to reach out and pick up the phone. You know, you gotta get, you gotta be willing to pick up the phone and talk to folks, whether that is an agent, a partner, or a merchant, you know, can’t be scared to get real personal and real communication. And that’s really the missing piece these days. And, you know, that’s what we’re hanging our hat on, you know, going forward, you know, if you can just talk to folks, the real problem that we’ve seen, or opportunity I should say, you know, to improve is just not giving communication with folks. You know, that that’s the frustration, that kind of the wall that’s being built of, of data that you have to like, try to find a way to climb over or, you know, bust through or work around, you know, if you can eliminate that in your business model, it’s still very helpful. That said, you know, as, as we’ve done a lot of business together in the past, I think being proactive is important also. I mean, checking in with folks like yourself and your group James, and, you know, just being ahead of the curve so you’re not, you know, taking some of those unnecessary arrows in the back, right. Getting that guidance that you should get. It’s worth every penny and it’s worth the time and the preparation, I would say that as well also.

James Huber (30:22):

All right, well George, great. Thanks for taking the time. How are, how are people gonna get in touch with you if they wanna, you know, really catalyze their business?

George Csahiouni  (30:33):

Yeah, appreciate that. So you can simply reach out to us at info@swoopuhfinancing.com, info swoop financing.com. You could also, um, just call us like I just mentioned, we want to talk to you, you know, so we prefer a phone call. I have a quick consultation. You guys, our guys and gals can obviously email some dates, times that work best, but we’re at 8 7 7 7 0 7 9 6 6 7, again, (877) 707-9667. Shoot us a phone call. I’m happy to get on the line and chat with anybody, um, about business. So I appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (31:07):

George, I gotta ask, you’ve known James for a long, long time now. What’s it like seeing James now partner of a law firm here producing his his own podcast? What are your thoughts?

George Csahiouni  (31:18):

Yeah, I think James is fantastic. Um, he is always fun to work with. I should say that he’s clearly a hundred percent a professional. Uh, he’s come a long way in his career, um, as well. It’s been fun to watch you grow as well as the team that you guys have over there, uh, a grow and, you know, it’s great. This podcast I think is fantastic and I’m looking forward to seeing, you know, you in person, but also to see where your career path goes and where you guys are taking this firm. So I think the education that you guys have brought into the market, especially the last few years with regards to some of the legal changes and kind of some of maybe, uh, folks or groups have been taken, taken advantage of a little bit, I think has been great. And I think you guys are shaping honest business also from, you know, your, your perspective and your tool belt of the way that you guys do business.

James Huber (32:08):

Perfect. We’ll edit the entire podcast down to that, uh, 22nd clip there and call good

Jeremy Stock  (32:14):

<laugh>. That’s exactly right. George, thank you so much. It was a pleasure having you on today.

George Csahiouni  (32:19):

All right guys, I appreciate, thanks a lot, talk to him.

Jeremy Stock (32:22):

Thank you for listening to the end of this episode of the Payments Expert podcast, the podcast of Global Legal Offer. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Payments Experts podcast, new episodes first and third Thursdays. If you’re interested in learning more about PEP and how Global Legal Law Firm may be able to assist you, please visit us at global legal law firm.com. To schedule a free consultation, give us a call at (888) 846-8901 or email us@pepattorneygl.com. And once again, thank you for listening.